And there [sighs] was a very dark patch over one, where the eye socket was, and they didn't know it, in the Edward's babies sometimes the eyes don't develop properly, or it might have been bleeding, they weren't very sure. It was just sort of deadpan faces, very serious looks, someone else coming to check. I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. It was the end of January, very end - about the 29th - I'd gone into, I'd gone into 5 months by then. He was sure the consultant on Monday would see that the measurements were completely normal and that there was nothing to worry about. The baby kicked, blissfully unaware of what I had done. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. And that, that was when things where it started going a bit wrong. When I see a child with Down's syndrome, I have a tremendous need to explain myself and apologise a million times over. I managed to tell my mum, who said she would come with us to the hospital. But you could see there was something wrong? Laura miscarried her twin babies in February. And I knew there was no way out. Our baby was beautiful. unfortunately the 20 week anomaly scan can pick up serious issues, hearing heart beats at midwife appointment doesn't let us know what's going on inside the body in detail. But he was wrong. Some of the conditions that can be seen on the scan will mean the baby may need treatment or surgery after it is born, for example cleft lip. I had an appointment with my consultant 2 days later, and again he said, you know, 'Very common - shouldn't worry about it too much, you know, if, the problem is if they find anything else wrong'. the amniocentesis) and the pregnancy had already ended, or because the scan was not routinely offered in their region 5 or more years ago. The nursery I had selected for our two-year-old son; my maternity leave; the bunk beds; the summer holiday suitable for a newborn baby. It took 20 minutes to push him out. There are no known risks to your baby or the mother from having an ultrasound scan but it is important that you consider carefully whether or not to have the 20-week scan. You've had, you've had your Down's Syndrome check and that's okay. That he was small. Tommys is a registered charity in England and Wales (1060508) and Scotland (SC039280). However, a few hours later there was another shift change. So that was it. I was willing the results to be normal. And my partner and I would have a completely different life from the one we'd imagined. The milk came and stayed for what seemed like for ever. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. While some parents understood the clinician's restraint - even when they had to wait an hour or more for a definite diagnosis - others disliked being kept in suspense and wanted to be told what the clinician was thinking. To view this licence, visit nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3 or write to the Information Policy Team, The National Archives, Kew, London TW9 4DU, or email: psi@nationalarchives.gov.uk. I felt empty, scared, guilty and incredibly heartbroken. So on the Monday we went in to see the senior sonographer, I think she was a consultant at the hospital. They sort of drew some diagrams, and they said, 'But we need to refer you to a specialist to confirm the diagnosis'. Do you have any thoughts about that? So it was just, we were coming up to the 20-week scan and I was just getting more relaxed, just actually starting to look at maybe baby catalogues or, you know, going down the baby aisle at the shops, which I'd always avoided. I give obsessively to charity, especially those linked to sick children. Tissue paper will be tucked around your clothing to protect it from the ultrasound gel, which will then be put on your tummy. And at that, I let out a scream I think. They would then re-test me in two days time. Previous scans in this pregnancy and with my first child had been fun - a chance to see the baby wriggling around and perhaps find out its sex. It was over. Those two weeks were agonising for us both. It is extremely rare for these pregnancies to reach term as they typically spontaneously miscarry early in pregnancy. Any delay in receiving more information about the abnormality and its implications will be distressing for women and this should be acknowledged. And it was Christmas Eve and at the time I didn't think, the sonographer did spend a little bit of time scanning us and queried my dates several times and then explained that she couldn't quite see the baby's heart properly and would we come back in a couple of days? And then, so I went to my next scan, which was the 20-week abnormality scan, and we took our first child with us, I think he was 17 months old at the time. I remained positive, we researched lots of cases of mistaken dates, inconclusive scans, and compared them to our situation; scrutinising everything to try and believe it was all one big misunderstanding. I want to be happy again. Where we were living then at the time you only had a scan at 20 weeks. Just doing it. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. See you in -. With my oldest it turns out she has a minor thing that affects 1 in 1000 of the population and wont harm her at all it's just "there" and with my second the issue turned out to be nothing. . It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. Having the scan does not hurt but the sonographer may need to apply slight pressure to get the best views of your baby. I give pregnant women dirty looks. And, it does not occur to you in the slightest. You do not have to have the scan. And it was just a bit of a shock because it's not really what you want to hear - you don't really expect that. Spina bifida can usually be seen clearly on a scan and of those babies who have this condition, around 9 out of 10 (90%) will be detected. The baby was kicking so hard that I began to believe him. No one else felt him kick. But everything seemed fine and we'd been sitting waiting to see the consultant, and I'd had an examination on the bed. I had hope that the little bumps inside me were fighting just as much as I was to stay with me. We had so much power, we could decide that this little thing should die. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. So I was a bit ignorant of the kind of things, you know, what the scans were really doing - maybe it was, a bit na've I think. I went away and came back, and she couldn't get a good picture. A few people recalled how frightened and alarmed they became when they sensed that the atmosphere in the scanning room changed in an instant from 'jokey' to serious when the baby's problems were detected. Again, no notes can have been written down because the midwife asked the same question. It's, I mean you can't tell from these scans what you're looking at really, but I remember thinking, 'it just doesn't look quite right' or something, but I didn't give it much thought. I know it is still early days. He then told us what the prognosis would mean for the child. But no. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. I can't remember the exact words but she said, 'There might be some fatal problems with your baby'. Thick milky discharge at 14 weeks.tmi pic attached. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. And they took me to another room and they explained that the baby had what they thought was ventriculomegaly or something. This one cannot show you anything, that's what's inside your mind. News stories, speeches, letters and notices, Reports, analysis and official statistics, Data, Freedom of Information releases and corporate reports. Then, three days later, I would go to the labour ward - the ward I had been expecting to visit in two and a half months. It went from bad, to worse, to worse, to dire, then to better. I've been incredibly lucky to have such amazing support from Sam, my mum, and close friends and family. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. There, I would give birth. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. Went off for the 20-week scan, which you didn't, you weren't there, were you, for the first scan? It was exactly like the labour I had with my first child. So even if anomolies are found, they don't always mean a problem.. x. I had issues at the 20 weeks scan with both of mine. We had the 20 week scan yesterday and got some devastating news. By the time I left the hospital, I was in shock. There were also two spots on his heart, which were "soft markers" for Down's syndrome. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. 15/02/2014 08:02. I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. Somehow, I walked from the sofa up to the bathroom and told my partner. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. We were denying him his life. You can change your cookie settings at any time. After the triple test you stop thinking, you stop thinking that anything can go wrong. Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. You might be offered another test to find out for certain if your baby has one of the conditions. Living in this world must be unbearable for them. I was told that while bad news at the 12 w scan is often of the life or death kind, bad news at the 20 week scan is often of the 'needs an operation in childhood' or 'needs to wear a brace for a year' kind. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? So we left it there, and we didn't actually think that there was anything really to worry about after that scan. I tried not to sit still for too long, because then I became too aware of the little thing inside me. And, faced with feeling sorry for myself or feeling sorry for my child, I know which I'd choose. She didn't want to see the baby. But I still didn't want to be the one who stopped this baby's chance to live. Fine, go on my own. It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan . I didn't sleep that night I don't think. And attribute some blame to them. As soon as we arrived, we were shown to this little room. It would be a personal tragedy for my partner and me, but that is all. So I lay on the bed and my partner sat next to me. I think they perhaps could have done, if they had looked a bit closely. The first midwife seemed to understand what we were trying to say, and said she would ask the doctor to come and talk to us. So it was, there was very, very little movement from the baby because I remembered first time round by that stage, you know, that the baby was quite big and it moved around a lot at a later scan. It's quite common, perhaps 1 in 10 they find these, and within a few weeks they disappear. (See. Life expectancy of 30 or 40. You may need to have a full bladder when you come for the appointment. 'Soft markers'. Mm-hm. Cardiac surgery can do some amazing things. In most cases the scan will show that your baby appears to be developing as expected but sometimes a condition is found or suspected. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. I couldn't have the added responsibility for changing his mind. It was another consultant, who said, "I'm afraid I have some bad news - your baby has Down's syndrome." My wife turned the screen away from her. I ran into the bedroom to tell Sam, who was ecstatic. My heart goes out to you OP. Which is what I'd seen. I loved him instantly and didn't want to let him go. Several parents said they would have preferred being told something, even it was vague. BabyCenter. Your mind has closed to the possibility that there could be anything wrong. Parents get a chance to emotionally adapt to news and plan. 10/03/2021 16:13, @Cormoransjacket So once again we were right back down, really no, really not knowing what to expect. It was positive, and I felt elated. We were convinced everything would be OK. ABDOMINAL CIRCUMFERENCE MEASUREMENT AT 20 WEEK SCAN. And how wrong could they be? 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. I was then told yet again bad news. Dont include personal or financial information like your National Insurance number or credit card details. We went in, had a scan, I can't remember the exact sequence of events because the baby was still in the wrong position. And the next day we went back to the hospital and we had another scan with a specialist, and he confirmed it was a condition called holoprosencephaly, which I'd never heard of any of these words before, they were just such long words. She describes having to make a . The doctor wanted to do another blood test to confirm a significant drop in my hormone levels. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. When I think about how long it took them to deliberate ultimately, maybe not, but it just felt like a bit of a fast food situation, didn't it? It can be such a shock so do whatever you need to feel better. Did you, how did that scan make you feel? And still we asked to see a, Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans. The midwife was on the verge of tears and I felt responsible. I just want to be normal again. The hormone levels had dropped, but they wanted to scan me again. However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. You've had a scan, you've had the blood tests, you've been good. I know it sounds odd that you want to hear that it's wrong, but you, you know it's wrong, and you, you want to be reassured either that it's okay or is there something seriously wrong. 12/12/2012 22:41. Three midwives came and went. Baby loss stories I let out an animal scream and [wife] kind of leapt onto me on the bed. This does not mean there is anything to worry about. I had never imagined having an amniocentesis. She endured many agonising rounds of scans and tests, and unfortunately met with some unhelpful attitudes from some healthcare professionals. It was horrible. Can you describe the difference between the scan at this later stage in a pregnancy? After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. We must have had one before that as well, we must have had one before that, but it came back quite normal. A company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales company number 3266897. I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. But the consultant had found more spots on the heart and the measurements were the same. Only this time, no cry came. There was a very marked lack of amniotic fluid which made it difficult, not even for the scanners to see, that made the picture of the scan look very, very different. If you choose not to have the scan you can still have all other parts of your routine antenatal care. But even if I was there, I still think I would have wanted to see the detail on the scan. My partner was away working and was waiting to hear whether he was having a son or daughter. I've realised that being a nice person is a luxury some can't afford. 20 week scans look for 11 different anomalies as a rule, however, indicators (markers) are not terribly reliable and in all the literature I found, the targets set for stonographers look like they only pick up around 50% or less of these variants. What were babys measurements at 20 week scan? And they took me into another room. The ultimate betrayal. My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. It would have been nice to see someone straight away because I was in such shock. I agreed to an internal scan as the sonographer said we could get a better picture of what was happening. I felt the dread run through me. The next day, it was confirmed that my bloods had again dropped. Have I misunderstood what's going on?' And having read, since read my information on Edwards' syndrome, a good 85 per cent have problems with the heart. By this time, we were tired. Eventually she got the measurements she wanted. Except for the persistent, nagging doubts. Again, we weren't understood. I think I was about 20 weeks cos they, the hospital I think did the 12 and the 20, that was their standard thing and, yeah, so I got the 20 weeks one. I've still had no cramps or bleeding so fingers crossed everything is ok I just couldn't believe I fell down the stairs, I can't remember the last time I ever did that! I wasn't unduly worried at all. hi ladies. All the hopes, dreams, and plans we made with our little bumps has been taken away from us. The doctor didn't come. In a small number of cases some very serious conditions are found. The clinic advised a follow up scan the week after, to check on progress and to see what to do next. And then all of a sudden, I was still laughing and we were all very upbeat, and then suddenly, he suddenly said, but I was still, still laughing, and he said to me, 'Oh, there might be a problem, there might be a problem with the, I think this baby has hydrocephalus'. Please note that the opinions expressed by users in Tommys Book of #misCOURAGE are solely those of the user, who is unlikely to have had medical training. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. Most scans show that babies seem to be developing as expected, and none of the 11 conditions are found. And, so they sent me home at that stage because they said the specialist wasn't available till the following day, which was awful. Instinctively, did it feel right? In fact, interestingly enough, going sort of. And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. You're in and out and that was it. And as, and as soon as I saw the pictures of the scan, having had two normal pregnancies, even I could see that there was a marked contrast between this pregnancy and the pictures that I'd had previously. Limitations of the 18-20 week scan And again, you know, you read all the books and it tells you 'this is the diagnostics', but after a while you don't hear that inside your head any more No, no, no, I'm fine - because everything's perfect. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see '. But other than that everything was fine. My partner's face was lit up, seeing the baby for the first time. During the examination, sonographers need to keep the screen in a position that gives them a good view of your baby. I was sat on the sofa working, my son was at nursery and my partner was in the bath. We were told to go to the hospital immediately. And at that point I don't think we, I don't think we realised that there might have to be a decision, because we'd talked about it with, with Down's and the other possible problems, but at this point it was, well okay what can be done to fix the problem - because yes the heart's not developing properly but there must be something we can do. Apologise for somehow doubting their right to be in this world. These opinions do not represent the opinions of Tommys and are not advice from Tommy's. I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans And, sometimes, I wish I had invited my whole family into the hospital room to see him. If one of the conditions is found or suspected, the sonographer may ask for a second opinion from another member of staff. So we decided that, to have the scan and we went along I think early in the week for that, and spent quite a lot of time with the consultant after that. Everywhere you look, there are happy, fat, smug pregnant women. But he was not sure. Nights were impossible. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. I think I don't everything just seems a real blur because it was, it was such a strange experience. In order for the sonographer to get good images of your baby, the scan is carried out in a dimly lit room. He had to come to the decision by himself. You get extra care and monitoring as appropriate and baby is proactively treated. It doesn't remove the guilt, but I don't know what else to do. You know there's always that bit on the bottom of the thing, 'These are diagnostics, do not bring other children,' - blah, blah, blah.. it's not, you know, it's not a family outing kind of thing, but it feels like it. Wed like to set additional cookies to understand how you use GOV.UK, remember your settings and improve government services. My partner spent the weekend trying to convince me that things were OK. I think at that time she had come to terms better with the fact that this baby was going to be terminated, and I don't think I was quite there. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. We left for home feeling completely numb. I don't know how we got through the next couple of days. And I thought that if I were faced with the possibility of having an amnio, hours of discussion would follow - I would spend days mulling it over. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). I had to take a tablet there and then, under the supervision of a nurse, to end the pregnancy. And in this instance the scan was very evident that there was something very seriously wrong. Please ask your hospital about this before your appointment. My baby might have Down's syndrome. And with each one we had to have the same conversations. We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. I had a horrible feeling of relief. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan.
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